Israeli Extremists Burn the Church Where Jesus Multiplied Loaves and Fishes

By Celine Hagbard

Early Thursday morning, right-wing Israelis set on fire the Church of the Multiplication, where Christians believe that Jesus multiplied loaves and fishes, and wrote graffiti in Hebrew on the walls that read, “False idols will be smashed” and “Pagans”.

The fire was set at about 3 am in the early hours of Thursday morning, severely damaging church offices and storage rooms. The entire church was saturated with smoke damage.

In addition, Hebrew graffiti was spraypainted all over the front entrance to the church reading “Pagans” in red paint.

The Church of the Multiplication is believed by Christians to be the site of Jesus’s miracle of multiplying two fish and five loaves to feed 5,000 people.

Several church volunteers suffered from smoke inhalation while trying to extinguish the fire before the firefighters arrived on the scene. The fire was put out several hours after it began.

The church, which is run by the Catholic Benedictine Order, is best known for its fifth-century mosaics, including one depicting two fish flanking a basket of loaves.

Christian churches have been targeted by right-wing Jewish Israeli attacks hundreds of times in recent years.

In May 2014, the Romanian Orthodox Church on Hahoma Hashlishit Street in Jerusalem was defaced in a suspected hate attack. That incident saw the words “price tag”, “Jesus is garbage” and “King David for the Jews” spray-painted on the site’s walls.

Two weeks earlier, ahead of a visit to the country by Pope Francis, suspected Jewish extremists daubed hate graffiti on Vatican-owned offices in Jerusalem.

The Hebrew-language graffiti, reading “Death to Arabs and Christians and those who hate Israel,” was sprayed on the walls of the offices of the Assembly of Bishops at the Notre Dame center, a complex just outside the Old City, the Roman Catholic Church said.

Dmitry Diliani, a member of the Fateh revolutionary council, as well as the Secretary-General of the national Christian Assembly in Palestine, issued a statement that the attack on the church represents a practical application of the stances taken by the Israeli government, which funds fanatic groups.

He noted that some of the leaders of those fanatic groups hold political positions in spite of their incitement. By refusing to list those groups as terrorist organizations, Diliani argued, the Israeli Knesset is effectively providing them with legal protection, and is not taking seriously the ongoing, multiple attacks by right-wing Israelis against Christian and Muslim holy sites.

Knesset Member Dr. Basil Khattas was quoted as saying, “Those terrorist groups attack both Christian and Muslim holy sites with impunity. The Israeli government must open a serious investigation into this and other incidents of violence against holy sites.”

Israeli authorities say they are investigating to see if the fire was an accident or was intentional. But Christians who live in the area say that the Israeli police are not taking the investigation seriously – adding that this was obviously an anti-Christian hate crime, given the graffiti that was written on the site of the fire.

No arrests have been made in connection with the arson.

Graffiti on front entrance of church in Tiberias (image by ‘Palestinian Christians’ Facebook group)

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  1. charlie6
    June 20, 2015 at 1:19 pm

    Fundamentalist Christians support the Jewish theft of Palestinian lands and Jewish genocide against the Palestinian people as a way to use the Jews to realize their rapture fantasies. The Jews use the Fundamentalist Christian belief in rapture fantasies to get themselves a state (A fallback position after they collapse which ever nation they happen to be exploiting at the time), neither the conservative Jews nor the conservative Christians have genuine respect or care and concern for each other. Meanwhile the bloodbath of conservative ideology, war profiteering, racial and religious hatred goes on.

  2. June 20, 2015 at 1:43 pm

    No pix, only blank screen.

  3. NightriderXP1
    June 20, 2015 at 3:31 pm

    Jewish fanatics have been there since before the creation of the Zionist Jewish State of Israel on stolen Palestinian land. This could only be considered new because christians are openly being victimized now. The UN made a huge mistake uprooting one large population in order to give it to another. That mistake is the root of the last 60+ years of violence in the region and will only end once that disastrous mistake is corrected…

  4. nyctuber
    June 20, 2015 at 3:39 pm

    Such seething hatred of Jews. ‘Palestinians’ declined their own State three times.

  5. NightriderXP1
    June 20, 2015 at 3:52 pm

    It’s not a seething hatred of Jews. The UN should never have uprooted and displaced the Palestinian people and given their land and property without compensation to create a new Jewish State. Palestinians were promised their own State by the British, then they were screwed. None of the neighboring Arab nations agreed to this arrangement either. Both the Jewish and Palestinian people were screwed by this stupid agreement. The Jewish State should have been created in a welcoming neighborhood. Unfortunately, none of the Western nations were willing to donate land to create a Jewish State. And even though Germany lost the war, it was not expected to cede land to create a Jewish State either…

    You may not realize this, but the Jews 2000 years ago weren’t exactly white. Anyone can claim to be Jewish but that doesn’t make them blood decedents from the people living there 2000 years ago…

    I find it odd that any discussion that doesn’t put Israel up on a pedestal is labeled as hate. When did Israel become our master???

  6. NightriderXP1
    June 20, 2015 at 3:53 pm

    Sorry, it’s not BS just because you don’t like it. The truth isn’t always pleasant. Israel should never have been created on stolen land. Who would have ever thought that the displaced inhabitants would still be fighting back to regain their land 60+ years later???

  7. nyctuber
    June 20, 2015 at 4:09 pm

    It’s seething hatred of Jews. The Holocaust did indeed happen, Jews did indeed need a homeland. Palestinians could have had their own separate State, but always rejected it. The incessant misuse of ‘Zionist’ as a means to demonize Jews and alter these facts is nauseating.

  8. NightriderXP1
    June 20, 2015 at 4:18 pm

    So do you believe that the US is beyond criticism too? Or is it only Israel that can never be questioned???

    The Palestinians were promised a State by their British overseers. It was the Germans who tried to exterminate the Jews. Why do you think Israel wasn’t created from confiscated German land? Why do you believe that the Palestinians should have been happy to give up their land so that a Jewish State could be created on top of it???

    You obviously don’t understand that Zionism is the extremists of the Jewish faith. Have you ever wondered why Jews in the US are openly against the Zionist Jews? Or do you believe that all Jews think the same? Do you believe that most christians share the views of the Westboro Baptist Church???

    Why is criticism of Israel and its creation on stolen property off-limits in your mind? Why wasn’t Israel created on German land? Or perhaps the US could have given part of Texas away to create the State of Israel? Why wasn’t any Western nation willing to donate land to create the Jewish State? It’s easy to give away land that doesn’t belong to you, not so easy when it does. The UN had no moral right uprooting the Palestinian people to create Israel…

  9. nyctuber
    June 20, 2015 at 4:21 pm

    No, I don’t believe anyone is ‘beyond criticism.’ This isn’t criticism it’s the same tired demonization of Israel and by extension Jews. It isn’t stolen property, and frankly anyone who needs to frame it as such is an Antisemite.

  10. NightriderXP1
    June 20, 2015 at 4:28 pm

    So if you don’t consider uprooting the inhabitants as theft, what would you call it? The Palestinian people weren’t even compensated for the loss and continued loss of their own land. You obviously don’t even understand that the Palestinian people are also Semitic people, so based on your views, you are anti-Semitic if you criticize the Palestinian people…

    The majority Palestinian population lived in harmony with the minority Jewish population in Palestine, until the Zionists set their sites on taking the land for themselves. You might want to research the history of Palestine before the land was stolen to create the Jewish State of Israel. You might be surprised on the true history of the region leading up to the UN’s massive mistake…

    Why do you think Germany wasn’t expected to give up land for the creation a Jewish State? It was Germany that attempted to exterminate the Jewish people, not Palestine…

  11. nyctuber
    June 20, 2015 at 4:32 pm

    The Turks sided with Germany in WWI and lost their Empire. I’m sorry you hate Jews, though it’s pretty common with most liberals to puke on Israel and stir up Antisemitism. Again, ‘Palestinians’ rejected three offers of their own separate state. Israel even tried to give Gaza to Egypt. Rejected, of course. Take a look at a map of the ME, Israel is a speck, yet none of the charming Muslim countries who hold 99% of the land can lift a finger.

  12. sisterlauren
    June 20, 2015 at 4:34 pm

    Me too. I guess they do not want us to see it.

  13. NightriderXP1
    June 20, 2015 at 4:42 pm

    No matter how many times you repeat a lie, it doesn’t make it true. The Palestinians wanted their own State and were promised it by their British overlords. That is well documented history. Your argument makes absolutely no sense. Do you believe that the Palestinians agreed to give up their land, then changed their mind when it was taken? Palestinians had no reason to reject their own State and leadership. I’m surprised that you’re not embarrassed typing that nonsense for the whole world to see…

    NONE of the Arab nations agreed to the creation of Israel on stolen Palestinian land and that’s what they’ve been fighting to correct for 60+ years. The creation of Israel was stuffed down their throats…

    So you admit to being a conservative? Why are you trolling this community? Do you think that the US is also beyond question, unless of course a Democrat is POTUS? That would explain why you guys remained quiet from 2001-2008 when GW was trashing our economy and launching wars based on lies, but suddenly decided that the country was going down the tubes on January 20, 2009 once Obama was inaugurated…

    If the UN decided to take your property away to give it to the Jewish people and not even compensate you for your loss, you would not be a happy camper. I fail to understand why you can’t comprehend why the Palestinian people have been so angry for over 60 years. Do you believe that we had to create Israel in the Middle East so that christian end times prophesy could come true???

  14. NightriderXP1
    June 20, 2015 at 4:45 pm

    Does this help???

    This is the “Graffiti on front entrance of church in Tiberias”…

  15. nyctuber
    June 20, 2015 at 4:56 pm

    The reverse engineered rationalization of preexisting Antisemitism routine is very played out. Get a new one. Bye.

  16. f frederick skitty
    June 20, 2015 at 5:26 pm

    it does my heart good to see abrahamists behaving badly toward other abrahamists. more, please! more demonstrations of your power, mercy, and righteousness!
    most of the world’s woes can be traced to the internal squabbles of this murderous death cult.

  17. f frederick skitty
    June 20, 2015 at 6:32 pm

    nyctuber –
    it has been decided that we will give your home and neighborhood to the ‘close-cover-before-striking bible school and discount house of worship’. they need a home, not a post office box. if you do not evacuate the premises, you and your entire family will be imprisoned without adequate food, water, medicine or hope..and we will shell your family and neighbors, sometimes with white phosphorous, for 60 years.
    be prepared to evacuate tomorrow.

    treating others this way is despicable. this was universally agreed after ww2 and enshrined into international law. in this particular case the cruelties are being committed by israelis, treating a conquered people like animals in beshitted cages. regardless of your religious, social, or tribal affiliations, no matter what you call yourselves, stop treating gaza and its palestinian inmates like the warsaw ghetto.

    but as the old joke goes, if the foo shits wear it.

  18. f frederick skitty
    June 20, 2015 at 6:52 pm

    tell me, what is your working definition of ‘antisemite’?
    don’t go away before providing that information.
    aren’t the palestinians also semites?
    if i am wrong about this, please correct my error.
    if the palestinians are semites, and i support wholeheartedly their struggle for justice and freedom from israeli oppression and occupation, then i couldn’t possibly be antisemitic.
    opposing israeli apartheid does not make one an antisemite.
    to paraphrase richard pryor, you ain’t the semite-est muthafucka in the whole world, ya know.

  19. NightriderXP1
    June 20, 2015 at 7:37 pm

    I’m not surprised that many have tried to tell you the truth yet you’ve chosen to embrace pure nonsense anyway. Conservatives aren’t real fond of facts, logic, or history, so it doesn’t surprise me that you refuse to accept them. Many conservatives live in a make believe fairy tail alternate universe and believe that anyone who doesn’t accept their mangled views are their enemies. I’m sorry but I’m unwilling to turn my back away from reality to join you. Your world must seem pretty confusing each time reality rears its head and debunks everything you blindly choose to embrace…

  20. NightriderXP1
    June 20, 2015 at 11:04 pm

    Repeating the same thing frequently doesn’t make it true. So explain to me what part of my comment do you disagree with? Everything I included in my comment is true even if you don’t like it. Palestine had a majority Arab population that lived peacefully with a Jewish minority population. All the problems started when Zionist Jews in Germany set their sites on creating a Jewish State on top of Palestine. They are treating Palestinians much like the NAZIs treated the Jews. And now they are attacking christians. They won’t be happy until all Palestinians are driven out of the West Bank and Gaza and they claim the occupied lands for themselves. It is nearly impossible for any Palestinian to obtain a construction permit in the occupied territories yet extremely easy for illegal Jewish settlers to do so. They continue stealing Palestinian land while the US turns a blind eye to it…

    If someone decided to give your property away to someone else, I have no doubt that you would be unhappy about it. Please lie to me and tell me that you would be ok with having your property stolen and given to someone else. It seems odd that you’re unable to empathize with the plight of the Palestinians knowing how you would react if you walked in their shoes. The Palestinians did nothing to deserve this. Germans should have been forced to cede their land to create a Jewish State since it was Germany that attempted to exterminate the Jews. The UN had absolutely no moral authority to give Palestine away to create a new Jewish State, which is why that region is unlikely to ever see peace until the mistake is corrected. The Jewish and Palestinian people are both victims of this massive UN mistake…

  21. disqus_tu7SEHpgGp
    June 20, 2015 at 11:12 pm

    I think Hitler was onto something.

  22. disqus_tu7SEHpgGp
    June 20, 2015 at 11:17 pm

    You run, like an Israeli. Can’t handle it can you? Freak.

  23. NightriderXP1
    June 20, 2015 at 11:19 pm

    You really don’t know history. The Palestinian people wanted full political control over Palestine, but since Britain thought it owned most of the world at the time, it used its might to control Palestine as part of its empire. The British overlords promised the Palestinians their own State prior to the UN decision to build a Jewish State on top of Palestine. Transfer of sovereignty from British to Jewish rule lead to transfer of property from the majority Palestinian population to a Jewish population that was shipped in from Germany, Poland, Russia, the US, Canada, etc. This was a total theft of Palestinian land with no compensation in order to create a new Jewish State, which should have been created on confiscated German land. The Palestinian people never deserved what the Western nations in the UN agreed to do to them. It was the Germans who should have paid the price for their transgressions against the Jewish people…

  24. disqus_tu7SEHpgGp
    June 20, 2015 at 11:23 pm

    I still think, after evicting all life from Jerusalem, a nuke would be a great deal, eliminating all “icons” as the Bible says.

  25. NightriderXP1
    June 20, 2015 at 11:30 pm

    It would not surprise me if the Israeli leadership nuked one of its own cities in order to use it as an excuse to blame its neighbors and then use its nuclear arsenal against them. Even though I’m not a big fan of false flag conspiracies, Israel has a history of lying to promote its agenda. Now that the whole world is turning against it, it will have to do something major to change the political dynamics. Israel needs its own 9/11 like event to give it political cover for its own military misadventures everywhere else…

  26. NightriderXP1
    June 21, 2015 at 12:09 am

    WTF? The Palestinians owned most of the land in Palestine prior to the creation of the Jewish State in 1948. They had every right to gain full political control over their own land and the British promised it to them. The Palestinians NEVER rejected full political control over Palestine…

    What you’re apparently referring to are the negotiations with the Palestinian people AFTER Israel was created in 1948 to give increasingly smaller non contiguous sections of land with NO Right of Return to their original land. The negotiations tried to FORCE the Palestinians to permanently cede all land stolen from them to Israel, which unsurprisingly, they refused to do. They refused to accept Israel because they wanted all the land stolen from them returned. Why should they forever cede the land that was stolen from them to the Israel State? If you were in their shoes, you wouldn’t agree to that either…

    The Zionist Jews have always planned to take all of Palestine to be part of their Jewish State and they are well on their way to accomplishing that goal. They’ve produced maps of Israel where the West Bank and Gaza strip don’t exist. Their motivations are clear. If the Israelis can’t force the Palestinians to abandon their remaining land, they will exterminate them. This is slow motion genocide and Israel is using US weapons and financing to do it…

  27. NightriderXP1
    June 21, 2015 at 12:18 am

    It’s not surprising that you’re instinct is to jump into the ditch and sling mud around. That’s usually an indication that you’re argument is weak or you lack the ability to debate it in a civil manner…

    I’m pretty sure that I’ve debated you before in another topic a while back. Do you remember what the topic was about???

  28. NightriderXP1
    June 21, 2015 at 12:23 am

    It doesn’t matter. The Palestinians owned most of the land in Palestine when the British controlled it. The Palestinians received a promise from the British that they would create a Palestinian State prior to the 1948 UN agreement to steal the land and use it to create a Jewish State. The Palestinians certainly had the right to keep their own land and the UN had no moral authority to take it and give it to the Zionist Jews from Germany…

    Please, let your neighbors steal your property and move onto it and don’t complain to the police. Since you believe that the Palestinians should have accepted those terms, then certainly you would be willing to do the same thing when your land is stolen. In fact, I would be more than happy to take control over your property so please send me your deed…

  29. NightriderXP1
    June 21, 2015 at 12:25 am

    No you can keep your shit. I want your land…

  30. NightriderXP1
    June 21, 2015 at 12:27 am

    That’s ok. You can take it back and give it to me. Your son should share your views and be willing to cede all of his property to me and anyone else who wants it and you both should be more than happy to give it up without compensation…

  31. NightriderXP1
    June 21, 2015 at 12:41 am

    Recorded history doesn’t agree with your views. The Palestinians owned most of Palestine. They were the majority population. There was a small Jewish population that lived peacefully with their Palestinian neighbors. That all changed when the German Jews decided to take Palestine to create a Jewish State. They convinced the UN to steal over half of Palestine, land that belonged mostly to the Arab population, to give to Jews who would immigrate in from all over the world. They demanded compliance and the Palestinian people and their Arab neighbors NEVER accepted those terms…

    The Palestinian people are fighting for their Right of Return to their own land, land stolen and given to the new Jewish immigrants. And the Jewish immigrants are not satisfied with the original UN agreement, so they continue building illegal settlements in the occupied territories, which belong to the Palestinian people. They won’t be satisfied until all the Palestinians are removed and all the land belongs to the Jewish State…

    I still want your land and your son has No Right to it since he is no relation to me. If necessary, we can take your land through Eminent Domain. WE will get your land whether you like it or not. But of course based on your views here, you will be ok with me taking your land. I hope you have some place else to go because you can’t stay there anymore…

  32. Southern
    June 21, 2015 at 1:41 am

    That doesn’t quite make sense – Israel never had Palestine either, Palestinians had to be forcibly removed and still resist to this day – DUHBINSKY!

    Exactly by which international law could Israel legally justify the forced removal and destruction of villages of a people already occupying the territory that they now reside on?

    By what authority is one able to simply remove the traditional custodians f.e. people already living on their ancestral lands and declare their own sovereignty.

    Link to a map of Western Palestine –

  33. Southern
    June 21, 2015 at 2:37 am

    Actually – no one ever agrees with DUHbinsky – he or she appears to go out of their way to make sure.

  34. June 21, 2015 at 8:31 am

    The Palestinians did not own but inhabited much of the land in Palestine prior to the creation of Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Israel – all nations created by the same powers at the same time in world history.

    Why place all our focus in the smallest minority state? If Israel is illegitimate does this not demand that we see many of Israel’s neighbors as illegitimate as well?

    BTW: In both West Bank and Gaza schools there hang maps of the region which do not include Israel. You appear to believe this a significant observation which makes clear ‘Palestinian’ motivations.

  35. NightriderXP1
    June 21, 2015 at 10:19 am

    The difference in partitioning to what was done in Palestine is that they drew arbitrary lines to create Syria, Iraq, etc, but they didn’t displace the inhabitants in any of those areas with people living elsewhere. In Palestine, they completely uprooted the Palestinian people to make room for the Jewish people who lived in Germany, Poland, Russia, Canada, the US, Africa, etc. What they did in Palestine was quite different to what they did everywhere else. The British had promised the majority Arab population in Palestine their own state, then screwed them in the UN. The Jewish State should never have been created on stolen property, which has led to 60+ years of violence and counting…

    Think of it if this had happened in the US. If the South had been ceded to create a Jewish State, the people of the South would not accept new maps showing the area as part of the Jewish State. They would continue creating maps that showed the area as belonging to them. They would never agree to negotiate that land away after the fact no matter how much pressure was placed against them. The Palestinians rightly want their land back. It was stolen and they were never compensated for their losses. Why should they recognize the right of Israel to exist? The Palestinians want a Right of Return to the land that was taken from them at gunpoint…

    I have no clue why this is such a difficult concept for people to understand. If any of you had this happen to you, you would be fighting mad and would never give up on regaining your land. Why is it so hard to understand this simple concept? What the UN did to the Palestinian people was despicable. They never deserved this…

    The Germans however did. They should have been the ones to cede their land to create a new Jewish State. The Germans lost the war that caused the deaths of millions of people. It was the Germans who should have lost their land, not the Palestinians…

  36. NightriderXP1
    June 21, 2015 at 10:45 am

    I’m beginning to see that. Some people have listened to and believed so many lies and half truths that they are incapable of understanding the truth when presented to them. And I’m sure there are some who intentionally argue issues that they themselves don’t believe just to be obnoxious and irritating. My guess is that dubinsky has simply been fooled by endless lies and propaganda from the christian right. (S)he probably believes that we had to create Israel in the Middle East to fulfill the christian end times prophesies, so they believe that it was the will of some sky ghost. There’s no way to argue with people who believe that Israel’s creation was by the hand of a higher spiritual power…

    I was raised in a strict Baptist home. I was never taught about how Israel was created. I didn’t learn about the history of Palestine and Israel until the Internet and Google was created. The history of the region was shocking. We were always led to believe that the Palestinians were evil and not that they were fighting to regain the land that was stolen from them. I think the problem here is education. If people actually understood that Palestine was stolen and millions uprooted to create the Jewish State, the debate would shift. I think most people are good, so once they understand the facts, they can understand that an injustice was committed against the Palestinian people and see them in a different light. They are not terrorists as they’ve been depicted by our media, they are fighting to regain their land. Anyone who has been the victim of crime should be able to relate to the Palestinians’ plight. The world needs to correct that horrible injustice because it’s the morally right thing to do…

  37. June 21, 2015 at 10:48 am

    “they didn’t displace the inhabitants in any of those areas with people living elsewhere – What they did in Palestine was quite different to what they did everywhere else.”

    1. Palestine, a Roman construct, encompassed a much larger area than you seem to realize. Geography speaking, an area which included all of the nation-states I previously mentioned.

    2. Millions of people were displaced at the time these nations were created after the fall of the Ottoman Empire, including indigenous Jews in each of the nation-states previously mentioned.

    3. Judaism has an exhaustively documented history of thousands of years precisely where we find Israel on the map today.

    One of the reasons, I believe, these are such a difficult issues is the fact that you seem to sincerely believe the things you opine regarding the history of the region. Beliefs which are demonstrably false – NO DIRECT OFFENSE INTENDED, I promise you that.

  38. NightriderXP1
    June 21, 2015 at 11:52 am

    This Land Is Mine

    The region has a long bloody history and has been ruled by many different groups over the millenia. From 306 CE to 614 CE Palestine became a center of Christianity. That’s over 300 years of Christian history in Palestine. From 3300–1000 BC, the region was ruled by Egypt. If the concept was to give Palestine to its earliest known rulers, it should have been given to Egypt. But it made absolutely no sense to uproot the current Palestinian occupants to create a Jewish State. I bet if we did blood and DNA analysis, we would discover that most of the Jews inhabiting Israel today have no blood or DNA ties to the people who inhabited the region 2000 years ago…

    It made absolutely no sense to pick a period from thousands of years ago, then try to recreate it by removing the current population and importing people from all over the planet. Since so many different groups have ruled the region over time, we could easily have picked just about anyone and given them the land since so many have ancient claims to it…

    Conflict in Israel and Palestine: Crash Course World History 223

  39. June 21, 2015 at 12:09 pm

    Thank you for the brief productions/films. I’ve seen them both some time ago. Obviously these are difficult issues.

  40. NightriderXP1
    June 21, 2015 at 2:38 pm

    The issues at the time weren’t that difficult until the UN added another bloody rung to the ladder. The land was populated by a majority Arab population that lived in peace and harmony with its minority Jewish and Christian neighbors. The UN should have left it alone. The arrangement in Palestine was working and the region enjoyed peace. It made absolutely no sense to make victims out of both the Jewish and Palestinian people by creating Israel on top of stolen property and evicting the existing population. The Jewish people’s gripe was with the NAZI Germans, not the Palestinians. After Germany was defeated in WWII, the Jewish people should have regained ownership of their German, Polish, and Russian properties and Germany should have been punished for its attempt to exterminate them. The Germans should have been forced to cede its land to create a Jewish State. That makes sense. Stealing land from the Palestinians never did…

    The issue wasn’t complicated until the newly created UN made it complicated and the world has been paying a heavy price ever since. Both the Jewish and Palestinian people are victims of that disastrous decision in 1948 and it will continue to haunt the world until it is corrected. The Palestinians never deserved what we did to them. The US has placed its own citizens at risk for its continuing support for that disastrous decision. WE have unnecessarily made ourselves a target for what we did and continue to do…

    Unless it changes, which is highly unlikely, there will come a day when the only friend Israel will have in the world is the US and there’s a good chance that Israel may eventually turn against us. Look at how Netanyahu treats Obama. The current Israeli government is not our friend. Why we bow to them baffles me. Israel is not our master. Israel has amassed a not so secret “secret” nuclear arsenal and could use it to obliterate any target on this planet, including Washington DC. I hope we are prepared for that possibility. WE have created a monster and it’s likely we will pay dearly for it someday…

  41. peacelover2345
    June 21, 2015 at 5:14 pm

    Israel was created in a UN plan to PARTITION the land between the 2 peoples, because there did not seem to be a prospect of them living together in peace in the same state. The UN DID NOT uproot anyone.

    And HOW do you propose uprooting 6 million Israeli Jews? What is your plan?

  42. peacelover2345
    June 21, 2015 at 5:41 pm

    The existing population was NOT evicted. The Israelis did NOT steal the land. The Jews immigrated there with the blessing of the Turks, the British and even many prominent Arabs. The Jews purchased ALL the land they inhabited. Most of the land was government owned or public-owned neither by individual Jews OR Arabs.

    As the Jewish population increased, Arabs began to become concerned that the Jews were becoming too numerous and would start becoming more “independent, rather than subservient to Muslim control, as is the case in ALL ARAB LANDS. Violence began to grow, on both sides. This began in the 1880’s, much before Nazi Germany. With increased immigration came increased resentment and increased violence. During WW2 there were severe restrictions against Jewish immigration, because of Arab pressure. The Mufti of Jerusalem became a strong ally of Hitler and proponent of the “final solution”, which he wanted implemented in Palestine as well as Europe.

    The UN partition plan was a means of keeping the two peoples apart, since it seemed they could not live TOGETHER in peace. If the Arabs had accepted it, there would be 2 states, peace between the 2 peoples and many more living Arabs and Jews. I have read that many Palestinian Arabs WANTED to accept, but that the Arab leadership ruled otherwise.

    Israel NOW exists. There are 8 million Israelis, of which over 6 million are Jews. These are FACTS. HOW do YOU recommend that the situation be corrected?

  43. peacelover2345
    June 21, 2015 at 5:44 pm

    Your facts are wrong. You launch your arguments based on false premises.

  44. peacelover2345
    June 21, 2015 at 5:48 pm

    It is YOU that has ALSO been slinging mud. SOMEHOW, you do not realize how hurtful and slanderous some of your comments can be.

  45. Southern
    June 21, 2015 at 5:55 pm

    Well stated, people should be free to follow any religion of their own choice while religion should never actually become the state – neither should corporations have a influence over politics.

    Nations and their politics should be about people, nothing else.

    Land rights for Palestinians!

  46. peacelover2345
    June 21, 2015 at 6:06 pm

    NO ONE was told to vacant their homes without compensation. Before the war, the Jews purchased all the property they had. When the 1948 war broke out, THEN Jews and Arabs did move away. Jews were also FORCED OUT of Arab lands where they had lived for hundreds, sometimes thousands of years. They are still waiting to be compensated for what they lost.

    The difference is that Jews who left were welcomed wherever they immigrated to. Palestinians also were welcomed, everywhere EXCEPT if they moved to an Arab country. THERE they were put into refugee camps where they are forced to remain–subject to Apartheid rules depriving them of full rights to education, work occupations, health care.

    The 1.6 million Arabs in Israel live better, with more rights and longer life than the Arabs in neighboring countries. Even West Bank Arabs live better than their Arab brethren.

    In the Warsaw Ghetto, ALL the Jews were starved and mistreated. The vast majority were either killed or made to die of disease and starvation. People would drop in the streets. The streets were filled with dead bodies. And YOU HAVE THE FILTHY GALL to claim Israel is doing something even REMOTELY similar. SHAME.

  47. peacelover2345
    June 21, 2015 at 6:09 pm

    The DICTIONARY definition of anti-Semite is prejudice or hatred of Jews.

    Why don’t you look it up in your dictionary and see for yourself?

  48. Southern
    June 21, 2015 at 6:12 pm

    Rejecting peaceful partition?…you’ve lost the plot.

    Israel has illegally occupied the Palestinian territories for quite a few decades, actively engaging in land theft through illegal settlement expansion, even imposing a system of apartheid.

    Israel’s stance is rather offensive, it cannot claim to be engaging in “self-defense” against the very people whose land it has illegally usurped.

    Even worse, Palestinians are not even allowed to lay claim to the wealth of natural gas deposits just of shore.

  49. NightriderXP1
    June 21, 2015 at 6:49 pm

    Have you looked at the map that the UN proposed? It looks worse than a gerrymandered congressional district. The incoming Zionists immigrants were attacking the Palestinians prior to the creation of Israel, but the Palestinians and the minority Jewish population lived in Peace with each other. The German Zionist Jews had set their sites on Palestine long before the NAZIs started exterminating them in Germany. The German Zionists Jews never had any plans to live peacefully with the Palestinians because they wanted all of Palestine and that’s what they’ve been working to accomplish ever since 1948. Look what they’ve been methodically doing ever since 1946:

    The Zionist Jews will never be happy until ALL Arab Palestinians have been driven away or killed and they have stolen all of Palestine. And now they are focusing on the Christian population too…

  50. MaatDPX
    June 21, 2015 at 7:03 pm

    @dubinsky, wrong, because the Zionist massacre of Arab villages started first. The Palestinian not only never started wars, but had not real arms or armies.

  51. MaatDPX
    June 21, 2015 at 7:05 pm

    @dubinsky, Palestinians never started any war because they had no arms or armies, and it was Zionists who started all the wars by massacring Arab villages like Dier Yassin.

  52. peacelover2345
    June 21, 2015 at 7:06 pm

    If you reply to me, it would be nice if you actually read what I wrote and replied to that instead of writing your own rant.

  53. MaatDPX
    June 21, 2015 at 7:06 pm

    @dubinsky, except that Jewish sovereignty in 1948 did not authorize the murder and expulsion of millions of native Palestinians as was done by Israel.

  54. MaatDPX
    June 21, 2015 at 7:08 pm

    @dubinsky except that Israel did start massacring Arab villages and confiscating their homes. Look at a map of 1948 and you see only Arab villages, while on a 1955 map, you see almost no Arab villages left.

  55. NightriderXP1
    June 21, 2015 at 7:50 pm

    The best way to describe what was happening in Palestine prior to 1948 is to look at a modern day version happening here in the US. There are many Conservatives who believe that Mexicans are crossing our borders with the intention to turn the US into Mexico. They actually believe that the undocumented immigrants that flowed across our borders was an attack on our very existence. Of course that’s not what’s going on here…

    But that’s exactly what the European Zionists had in mind in regard to Palestine. Their intentions were clear. They planned to immigrate to and to flood Palestine with Jews from all over the planet in an attempt to create a Jewish State. It was no secret. And as they immigrated to Palestine, they brought terror with them. They attacked the Palestinian population in an attempt to drive them away from their land. The Palestinians lived in peace with their Jewish neighbors but not with the Zionists flooding across their borders. The Zionists didn’t want peace. They wanted all of the land. There are credible reports that the Zionists worked with the NAZIS to force the Jews to emigrate out of Germany, Poland, and Russia so that they would immigrate into Palestine and turn it into their new Jewish State, which is exactly what they succeeded doing with the approval of the newly created UN…

    Look at the agreed UN plan from 1947. In what world does that partition plan make any sense? The Zionists agreed to that sloppy division because they knew it would not be the final outcome. They planned to take it all and they are well on their way to succeeding:

    There are 11 million undocumented immigrants here in the US. Ask most Conservatives and their plan is to have them all deported. Over the millennial, millions of people have been displaced for many reasons. It is not an unusual outcome…

    The UN agreement to create the Jewish State on top of Palestine never made moral sense, and it still doesn’t. There can never be peace in the Middle East as long as this mistake continues. Germany should be required to cede part of its land to create a Jewish State. If the US wants to donate a large chunk of Texas to create a Jewish State, that would be a good alternative. I doubt that you will find any Americans willing to cede their land to create a new Jewish State though. You won’t likely find any Western nation willing to donate land for that cause. It’s always easier to give away someone else’s land. Peace can/would return to the Middle East by undoing the UN’s 1948 mistake. The European Zionist movement should never have been granted their demands. WE now have 60+ years of history proving that it was a mistake…

    You’re only the 2nd person I’ve talked to over the years who claimed that the Palestinian inhabitants of the land didn’t own it. Do you believe that Americans don’t own their own land and that it belongs to the US government? Even though the British Empire spanned the globe, it didn’t own the land that it ruled over. The British had no right to give the Palestinian land away. The UN had no right to give the land away either. It didn’t belong to either of them. It belonged to the people living in Palestine. Most Israeli apologists I’ve talked to claimed that the land was uninhabited, which is why the UN was able to give it to the Jewish people. Of course recorded history shows that Palestine was a hub and had a rich trading history with many towns and villages…

  56. NightriderXP1
    June 21, 2015 at 7:56 pm

    I’m sorry if you don’t like my comment but it was in reply to what you wrote. What you wrote doesn’t match recorded history. The majority Palestinian population lived peacefully with their minority Jewish and Christian neighbors until the European Zionists started immigrating in with the intent to steal the land and convert Palestine into their own Jewish State. Your preferred version of history just isn’t true…

  57. NightriderXP1
    June 21, 2015 at 8:03 pm

    Is your only purpose in this community to tell everyone how stupid and ignorant they are? How do you think that advances your argument? Believe it or not, it’s not an effective debating tool…

  58. MaatDPX
    June 21, 2015 at 8:08 pm

    @dubinsky, right, it did not start with a wand, but with Irgun throwing grenades into the homes of Arabs in Dier Yassin and other Arab villages. There is no question Zionists started the 1948 war since the massacres started in 1946.

  59. MaatDPX
    June 21, 2015 at 8:10 pm

    @dubinsky, then how come Zionists started massacring arab villages before 1948? If Israel did not start the war deliberately, then how come Israel grabbed even more land and illegally expelled millions of Arabs?

  60. NightriderXP1
    June 21, 2015 at 8:12 pm

    What I find ironic is that so many believe that a Jewish State can be a functional Democracy. Theocracies aren’t Democratic by definition. They exist for the benefit of the State religion. Our Founders knew from first hand experience that the Church and State had to be separated so they hardwired that into our Constitution. Non Jewish citizens in Israel are at best 2nd class citizens. Israeli christians are going to learn this hard lesson if they haven’t already. Israeli arabs already know it. The incident described in this article certainly won’t be the last…

  61. NightriderXP1
    June 21, 2015 at 8:16 pm

    Could you provide an example? Just because you don’t like the history of the region doesn’t mean that I’m slinging mud when I reveal it to you. Why did you choose peacelover for your name? Your comment doesn’t seem very peaceful…

  62. MaatDPX
    June 21, 2015 at 8:19 pm

    @dubinsky, the Arab League does not include Palestine. And the zionists attack first at villages like Dier Yassin. Why else would the zionists blow up the King David Hotel and murder all the British peacekeepers unless it was the zionists who wanted to do all the attacking.

  63. NightriderXP1
    June 21, 2015 at 8:19 pm

    Which church are you protecting???

    You might try rereading your comments in this discussion then ask yourself if you helped or hurt your argument. Telling everyone who you disagree with that they are ignorant and stupid certainly doesn’t promote your arguments…

  64. MaatDPX
    June 21, 2015 at 8:31 pm

    @dubinsky:disqus , wrong again. The Arab Revolt of 1936-39 was against the British, not Zionists. And the result was massive death, arrest, flight, and disorganization of the Arabs, making it impossible for them to resist the Zionists attacks later.

    { …

    According to official British figures covering the whole revolt, the
    army and police killed more than 2,000 Arabs in combat, 108 were hanged,[8] and 961 died because of what they described as “gang and terrorist activities”.[1] In an analysis of the British statistics, Walid Khalidi
    estimates 19,792 casualties for the Arabs, with 5,032 dead: 3,832
    killed by the British and 1,200 dead because of “terrorism”, and 14,760
    wounded.[1] Over ten percent of the adult male Palestinian Arab population between 20 and 60 was killed, wounded, imprisoned or exiled.[12] Estimates of the number of Palestinian Jews killed range from 91[13] to several hundred.[14]

    The revolt in Palestine was unsuccessful, and its consequences affected the outcome of the 1948 Palestine war.[15] It caused the British Mandate to give crucial support to pre-state Zionist militias like the Haganah
    whereas on the Palestinian Arab side, the revolt forced the fleeing
    into exile of the main Palestinian Arab leader of the period, the Grand
    Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Amin al-Husseini. … }

  65. MaatDPX
    June 21, 2015 at 8:34 pm

    @dubinsky, Arab villages had been massacred by Zionists as early as the 1930s, and Irgun was murdering people back in 1946, when they blew up the King David Hotel.

  66. MaatDPX
    June 21, 2015 at 8:36 pm

    @dubinsky, the Palestinians were ever even allowed to speak at the UN, so could not have said or rejected anything. It was the Jews who did not accept the partition because they wanted Jerusalem, and Jerusalem is not part of the Israeli side of the partition.

  67. NightriderXP1
    June 21, 2015 at 8:41 pm

    Why did Americans revolt against the Brits???

  68. MaatDPX
    June 21, 2015 at 8:58 pm

    @dubinsky, the killing started when European Jews decided to emigrate to Palestine and take over. If there was such hatred and violence from Arabs, then why didn’t the millions of European immigrants just go somewhere else? No, they started the violence by trying to take over.

  69. MaatDPX
    June 21, 2015 at 9:00 pm

    @dubinsky, they were revolting against the Brits because the British promised the Palestinians independence during WWI. They should have been independent by 1936. That was over 16 years later.

  70. peacelover2345
    June 21, 2015 at 9:03 pm

    Individuals everywhere own only their own private property. Everywhere, there is private land, which is privately owned, and public land, owned and controlled by the government. at is the situation in Israel, before and after 1948. Before, some property was owned by Jews who had purchased it, some by Arab residents, some by large absentee landlords, and the majority was public land. When Britain received the Palestine Mandate, it took control of public land from the Ottoman Turks. When Israel obtained statehood in 1948, it took over the public lands from Britain.

    Before American Independence, The British controlled ALL NON PRIVATE property. After Independence, title transferred to American states and national government.

    As for the creation of Israel. I REPEAT. There were Jews and Arabs living in the SAME land. They fought and couldn’t seem able to live TOGETHER. in peace. The international community felt it necessary to separate them. They proposed to PARTITION the land into 2 states- ONE Jewish, ONE ARAB. That is what resulted in the creation of Israel and in all the Arab Israel wars. Now Israel exists as a legal, internationally recognized state that meets all the requirements of a fact of life recognized by the majority of the world, including many Arab countries and the Palestinian Authority.

  71. peacelover2345
    June 21, 2015 at 9:09 pm

    You ignored my statement that the UN did not uproot anyone.

    You ignored the Following as well: *And HOW do you propose uprooting 6 million Israeli Jews? What is your plan?*

    You keep repeating the LIE that the European Zionists started immigrating in with the intent to steal the land and convert Palestine into their own Jewish State.

  72. Southern
    June 21, 2015 at 9:29 pm

    Democracy is a nice sounding word, no matter where you are – just because we’re free to decide who to vote for does not mean that the party/person elected is free from the constraints imposed upon a government via deceptively termed free trade agreements.

    Just about all governments are accountable to the financial elite via ISDS and other provisions, and some give in more willingly than others, after all — After government the next most lucrative career option will be found in the corporate world, in 2013 37 of the worlds 100 largest economies were those of corporations, government is used as a stepping stone into this world when there should be a conflict of interest.

    Then there are quite a few duopolies scattered around the planet but that’s another matter although I find it rather suspicious how many nations are voting more and more conservatively.

    Trying to break free from this model can have disastrous consequences, hydrocarbons must be traded in the nominated currency…or else.

    Free election of masters does not abolish the masters or the slaves. ~ Herbert Marcuse.

  73. peacelover2345
    June 21, 2015 at 9:33 pm


    -It would not surprise me if the Israeli leadership nuked one of its own cities in order to use it as an excuse to blame its neighbors and then use its nuclear arsenal against them. Even though I’m not a big fan of false flag conspiracies, Israel has a history of lying to promote its agenda.

    -Palestine was stolen and millions uprooted to create the Jewish State

    -The Palestinians owned most of the land in Palestine when the British controlled it. The Palestinians received a promise from the British that they would create a Palestinian State prior to the 1948 UN agreement to steal the land and use it to create a Jewish State.

    -They planned to immigrate to and to flood Palestine with Jews from all over the planet in an attempt to create a Jewish State. It was no secret. And as they immigrated to Palestine, they brought terror with them. They attacked the Palestinian population in an attempt to drive them away from their land.

    -The British had promised the majority Arab population in Palestine their own state, then screwed them in the UN. The Jewish State should never have been created on stolen property, which has led to 60+ years of violence and counting…

    IN ALL THE ABOVE, your characterizations , using words like “*nuked one of its own cities “*, Steals, stolen, *”planned to flood”*. *”brought terror”* are all hurtful, untrue and slanderous. A very biased, subjective way to be negative.

  74. MaatDPX
    June 21, 2015 at 9:34 pm

    @dubinsky, 5,715 Jews immigrated to Palestine in 1920, and 9,149 emigrated in 1921. The Jews were rapidly emigrating in large numbers, with weapons and hostile intentions. If the Zionists were not intent on taking over, why is it they brought weapons and did take over?

  75. NightriderXP1
    June 21, 2015 at 10:21 pm

    You do know that this stuff is easy to look up don’t you???


    Zionism…is a nationalist and political movement of Jews and Jewish culture that supports the re-establishment of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the historic Land of Israel (also referred to as Palestine, Canaan or the Holy Land).

    Zionism emerged in the late 19th century in central and eastern Europe as a national revival movement, and soon after this most leaders of the movement associated the main goal with creating the desired state in Palestine, then an area controlled by the Ottoman Empire.

    The primary goals of Zionism until 1948, were the re-establishment of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel (“Eretz Israel” in Hebrew), ingathering of the exiles

    A religious variety of Zionism supports Jews upholding their Jewish identity defined as adherence to religious Judaism, opposes the assimilation of Jews into other societies, and has advocated the return of Jews to Israel as a means for Jews to be a majority nation in their own state.

    Critics of Zionism view it as a colonialist, racist and exceptionalist ideology that led advocates to violence during Mandatory Palestine, followed by the exodus of Palestinians, and the subsequent denial of their human rights.


    In the middle of the 16th century Joseph Nasi, with the support of the Ottoman Empire, tried to gather the Portuguese Jews, first to Cyprus, then owned by the Republic of Venice, and later to Tiberias. This was the only practical attempt to establish some sort of Jewish political center in Palestine between the fourth and 19th centuries.

    In the 19th century, a current in Judaism supporting a return to Zion grew in popularity,[53] particularly in Europe…

    individual efforts supported the emigration of groups of Jews to Palestine, pre-Zionist Aliyah, even before 1897, the year considered as the start of practical Zionism…

    The Reformed Jews rejected this idea of a return to Zion…

    The Pittsburg conference, 1885, reiterated this Messianic idea of reformed Judaism, expressing in a resolution that “we consider ourselves no longer a nation, but a religious community; and we therefore expect neither a return to Palestine, nor a sacrificial worship under the sons of Aaron, nor the restoration of any of the laws concerning a Jewish state”…

    Sir Moses Montefiore, famous for his intervention in favor of Jews around the world, including the attempt to rescue Edgardo Mortara, established a colony for Jews in Palestine. In 1854, his friend Judah Touro bequeathed money to fund Jewish residential settlement in Palestine. Montefiore was appointed executor of his will, and used the funds for a variety of projects, including building in 1860 the first Jewish residential settlement and almshouse outside of the old walled city of Jerusalem


    The official beginning of the construction of the New Yishuv in Palestine is usually dated back to the arrival of the Bilu group in 1882, which commenced the First Aliyah. In the following years, Jewish immigration to Palestine started in earnest. Most immigrants came from Russia…They founded a number of agricultural settlements with financial support from Jewish philanthropists in Western Europe. Further Aliyahs followed the Russian Revolution and Nazi persecution. However, at the end of the 19th century, Jews still were a minority in Palestine.

    In the 1890s, Theodor Herzl infused Zionism with a new ideology and practical urgency, leading to the First Zionist Congress at Basel in 1897, which created the World Zionist Organization (WZO)…

    As much of its leadership were German speakers, the Zionist movement’s headquarters were located in Berlin. At the start of World War I, most Jews (and Zionists) supported Germany in its war with Russia.


    Jewish migration to Palestine and widespread Jewish land purchases from feudal landlords led to landlessness among Palestinian Arabs and fueled unrest. There were riots in 1920, 1921 and 1929, in which both Jews and Arabs were killed.


    During World War II, as the horrors of the Holocaust became known, the Zionist leadership formulated the One Million Plan…Following the end of the war, a massive wave of stateless Jews, mainly Holocaust survivors, began migrating to Palestine in small boats in defiance of British rules. The Holocaust united much of the rest of world Jewry behind the Zionist project.

    The Zionist project.

    Zionism emerged as a national movement in Eastern Europe in the 1880’s. Its founder, Theodor Herzl (1860-1904), a Hungarian Jew, dreamt of establishing a Jewish State in the land of Palestine, a dream which was to be realised through colonisation and land acquisition. According to Zionist archives, the leadership of early Zionism believed that the native population of Palestine, as a result of this colonisation, would simply “fold their tents and slip away” or, if they resisted, they would be “spirited across the borders”.

    As early as the mid 1850s, the single aim of all Zionist planners was to slowly and secretly to acquire as much lad in Palesine and to transfer, drive out and ethnically cleanse its indigenous people. Period.

    Besides Jewish philanthropic activities in Palestine aimed at colonising the land, efforts at Jewish agricultural colonisation in Argentina were also being contemplated. A main driver of such a proposition was a German Jewish multi-millionaire by the name of Baron Moritz von Hirsch (1831-1896) from Munich. His idea was viewed with suspicion by those who favoured colonisation in Palestine. Baron von Hirsch’s views regarding a Jewsih home in Argentina were debated at the first Zionist Congress of 1897, but was ultimately rejected by the majority of the Zionist delegates.

    At the 7th Zionist Congress in Basel in 1905, all other colonisation projects were dealt a mortal blow, with Palestine being the next bull’s eye. The rest is history.

    Theodor Herzl had written back in June 1895: “We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border…and both the process of expropriation and removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly…”

    Israel Zangwill (see below) followed by saying that “if we wish to give a country to a people without a country, it is utter foolishness to allow it to be the country of two peoples…”.

    To secure support for this project, Israel Zangwill (1864-1926), an Anglo-Jewish writer born in London, and a powerful leader of British Zionism, coined the phrase: “a land without a people for a people without land”. Little did he and all his colleagues in the Zionist leadership realise (or wished to forget) that there were almost 410,000 Palestinians (Muslims and Christians) living in Palestine around the early 1890’s.

    haim Weizmann (1874-1952), who was born in Motal near Pinsk in Belarus, and who was to become Israel’s first president, once said: “…there is a country which happens to be called Palestine, a country without a people…and there exists the Jewish people and it has no country. What is left is to fit the gem into the ring…”

    The Zionist leadership did not actually mean that there were no people in Palestine. They meant that there were no people in Palestine worth considering as a people. The Zionists truly believed then, and still do now, that the Land of Israel belonged exclusively to the Jewish people.

    Enter David Ben-Gurion (1886-1973), one of the Yishuv leaders who was born in Poland as David Gruen and arrived in Palestine in 1906 at the age of 20 and later became the first prime minister of Israel. He strongly advanced the idea of transfer and saw a clear link between the separation of the Palestinians and of the Jews and the plan for the eventual transfer of the Palestinians out of Palestine.

    When the Palestinian Revolt took place between 1936 and 1939, the Zionists saw a chance for the strengthening of their underground forces and the expansion of their military infrastructure. It was becoming clear to the Yishuv that the solution to the Palestinian demographic problem can only be achieved through military force.

    Vladimir Jabotinsky (1880-1940), born in the Ukraine-USSR, was a member of the World Zionist Organisation. He later founded the Zionist-Revisionist movement, which was the central ideological component of the Likud (which became Ariel Sharon’s Kadima party). He always believed that the creation of a Jewish state meant imposing the will of Zionism on the Palestinian population. He stated:

    “…colonisation can continue and develop only under the protection of a force independent of the local population – an iron wall which the native population cannot break through…this is our policy towards the Arabs and to formulate it in any other way would be hypocrisy…The Jewish question can be solved either completely or it cannot be solved at all. We are in need of a territory where our people will constitute the overwhelming majority…and one must not be afraid of the word ‘segregation’ ”.

  76. NightriderXP1
    June 21, 2015 at 10:35 pm

    You quoted my comments but not once did you quote a comment where I personally insulted the person I was talking to. You are free to disagree with my opinions but to claim that they didn’t, can’t, or won’t happen is naive at best…

    I am not to blame that you don’t like or even fully understand history. I just submitted a very long comment describing much of the history that you choose not to believe or acknowledge. Although there is a lot there to absorb, it would be well worth your time to read and understand it. I would be surprised if you do though:


    Do you believe that everything that you disagree with is hurtful, untrue and slanderous or does it only apply to comments made regarding Israel and the Zionist movement that you disagree with? I don’t expect you to answer the following, but it could help explain your reactions. Do you consider yourself a Zionist Jew? Do you live in Israel or are you considering immigrating to it some day???

  77. NightriderXP1
    June 21, 2015 at 10:45 pm

    Your silly response isn’t surprising. You asked a dumb question that you should have been able to answer yourself so I gave you a simple answer that just about anyone could understand and relate to. A deeper answer to your question is that just about everyone in the British empire revolted against it at one time or another, including the Americans. I wonder why???

  78. NightriderXP1
    June 21, 2015 at 11:28 pm

    Most Americans claim that the US is a Democracy, yet it is actually a Republic. In a Democracy, we would be able to vote on every piece of legislation or rule. But in a Republic, we choose representatives who then vote, hopefully in a way that benefits us, their constituencies. But as you stated, our Representatives are easy to buy so they represent their funders rather than their electorate. If they have a sugar daddy who lives in another country or State, they will vote for legislation approved by their wealthy supporter even if it harms their constituents. The real trick is convincing the voters that the votes benefited them even when they didn’t. A skilled politician can convince Eskimos to buy ice cubes and convince them to be happy with their purchase…

  79. peacelover2345
    June 21, 2015 at 11:44 pm

    INCLUDED IN YOUR QUOTES, mostly from anti-Israel sources:

    ”.Critics of Zionism view it as a colonialist, racist and exceptionalist ideology that led advocates to violence during Mandatory Palestine, followed by the exodus of Palestinians, and the subsequent denial of their human rights ”.(You OMITTED Advocates of Zionism view it as a national liberation movement for the repatriation of a persecuted people to the homeland they were dispersed from millennia before)

    ”.During World War II, as the horrors of the Holocaust became known, the Zionist leadership formulated the One Million Plan…Following the end of the war, a massive wave of stateless Jews, mainly Holocaust survivors, began migrating to Palestine in small boats in defiance of British rules. The Holocaust united much of the rest of world Jewry behind the Zionist project.”.–(LIKE the massive refugee migrations happening in recent years)

  80. peacelover2345
    June 21, 2015 at 11:54 pm

    I know and understand quite a bit of the history of the modern British Mandate of Palestine and of Israel. Enough to know that what YOU have written as history is a very subjective, twisted and inaccurate description of reality.

    I find that some of YOUR OWN words are appropriate for YOU to consider about YOUR OWN VIEWS: -Do you believe that everything that you disagree with is hurtful, untrue and slanderous or does it only apply to comments made regarding Israel and the Zionist movement that you disagree with?

  81. NightriderXP1
    June 22, 2015 at 12:07 am

    What I left out of my quotes didn’t directly address your misguided comment, which I remind you was this:

    “You keep repeating the LIE that the European Zionists started immigrating in with the intent to steal the land and convert Palestine into their own Jewish State.”peacelover2345

    Perhaps I included far too much information and you missed these parts???

    The Zionist Project

    As early as the mid 1850s, the single aim of all Zionist planners was to slowly and secretly to acquire as much land in Palestine and to transfer, drive out and ethnically cleanse its indigenous people. Period.

    And this:

    The Zionist leadership did not actually mean that there were no people in Palestine. They meant that there were no people in Palestine worth considering as a people. The Zionists truly believed then, and still do now, that the Land of Israel belonged exclusively to the Jewish people.

    And we now have 60+ years confirming this plan. Look at the map of Palestine from 1947 to 2012. Do you disagree that this is indeed what the Zionists have accomplished transforming Palestine into Israel???

    There are a growing number of people who can see what Israel is doing to its non Jewish population. Do you think that the article for this discussion is anti-Jewish propaganda too? I usually avoid discussions with Israeli apologists since they always refuse to believe anything that shines a negative light on Israel and its bloody history. You obviously believe any criticism of Israel is completely off limits and I wouldn’t be surprised to see you throw the Anti-Semetic label around a lot when you see it. That is the knee jerk reaction of Israeli apologists to attempt to shut down legitimate debate. It’s no longer working very well though as the world is waking up to what Israel is doing in Gaza and the West Bank. People are waking up and they don’t like what they see…

  82. NightriderXP1
    June 22, 2015 at 12:24 am

    You’re now labeling my comments as subjective, yet a few comments back, you labeled them as hateful lies. You’re slowly evolving a bit but you still have a long way to go. I’ve provided documentation that supports what I have submitted in this discussion. What have you done to support your views other than to keep repeating your easily refutable comments???

    Your white washed version of history isn’t supported by the recorded history and now that most of us have Google at our fingertips, it’s not as easy to fool those ignorant of history. I used to believe like you do because I didn’t know any better. My views have evolved as I’ve researched the recorded history and as I’ve watched as the Israelis continued persecuting and killing the Palestinians in the occupied territories. Hopefully as you learn from these discussions, you won’t be as quick to embrace easy to debunk nonsense in the future. I can only hope that you do have the ability to learn and adjust when facts and logic dictate that you do so…

  83. Southern
    June 22, 2015 at 1:29 am

    The US is supposed to be a Republic, true. however she sold her sovereignty along the line and is no longer truly in charge of her own destiny.

    A recent study conducted at Princeton found that the US is not really a democracy but an oligarchy, The US foreign policy certainly reflects this.

    How did the US become an oligarchy?

    Chapter 3 paragraph 7 go from there you’ll find it.

  84. Southern
    June 22, 2015 at 3:40 am

    Thanks for proving that you really have no point other than to make yourself look like a total dickhead – Something which you do rather often and with very little effort.

    Feel free to continue proving what a complete and utter moron you really are, you appear to enjoy it.

  85. peacelover2345
    June 22, 2015 at 12:23 pm

    You wrote, among other things: ” I usually avoid discussions with Israeli apologists since they always refuse to believe anything that shines a negative light on Israel and its bloody history”. I DO NOT refuse to believe anything that shines a negative light on Israel. I myself have said negative things about Israel. No country, no organization, no person IS BEYOND criticism. Legitimate criticism.

    The fact that you can quote something negative from an anti-Israel website, or any other source, does not necessarily make that quote gospel truth and therefore exempt from legitimate disagreement. However, that seems to be how you are treating our correspondence:–WHATEVER YOU cut and paste is gospel truth. Whatever I say is WRONG or prejudiced or being an apologist.

    Your description of “the Zionist Project” is biased. Even if SOME planners felt that way, I do not believe that it is TRUE of ALL. You claim that the Zionists believe that the land of Israel belongs EXCLUSIVELY to the Jewish people again is WRONG and prejudiced. Israel Arabs officially are fully equal citizens, although in practice they are less than fully equal. But their lives are immeasurably better than Arabs in EVERY neighboring country.

    What Israel is doing in the West Bank, continuing with settlement expansion, I DISAGREE with. In my view, this is harmful to the peace process and harmful to the worlds perception of Israel. It also provides ammunition to Jew haters to spew their poison.

    Gaza is another story. Gaza is ruled by Hamas which has as its raison d’etre the destruction of Israel and establishment of a Muslim Waqf. ALL Gaza’s problems are the fault of Hamas. When Israel WITHDREW from Gaza in 2005, Gaza caused Israel problems with terrorist attacks, but MUCH LESS SO than after Hamas took violent control in 2007.

    Gaza used to be prosperous, relatively free and the borders with Israel were opened. People crossed the borders BOTH ways between Gaza and Israel. AFTER Hamas became the rulers by force, terrorism increased. Restrictions were imposed to stop Hamas from importing war materials. As we all know, the restrictions caused hardship to Gazans, but NEVER COMPLETELY prevented Hamas from arming itself.

    The deaths and destruction in Gaza are due to Hamas continuing to put its efforts and its money into the destruction of Israel. It does spend on infrastructure, but NOT for civilians-only for aggressive attacks on Israel, and apparently also attacks on Egypt. Hamas insists on building its concrete bunkers, rocket launchers, control centres and terror tunnels only in built up areas– in houses, schools, mosques and hospitals. It COULD use the available areas that have no structures, but does not do so. It COULD build bomb shelters, warning systems, etc and train people how to react when attacked-it does nothing of the kind. Instead, it encourages people NOT to escape attacks. Its leaders have been video’d to say that their people are intentionally used as shields. There is even a captured war manual with instructions about how to make effective use of civilians.

  86. peacelover2345
    June 22, 2015 at 2:03 pm

    I repeat the following, which you seemed to ignore:.

    “I find that some of YOUR OWN words are appropriate for YOU to consider about YOUR OWN VIEWS: -Do you believe that everything that you disagree with is hurtful, untrue and slanderous or does it only apply to comments made regarding Israel and the Zionist movement that you disagree with?”

    Once again I say that what you present as uncontroversial facts ARE ANYTHING BUT. Much of what you have written is debased by the subjective, negative wording you have used.

    Your BLACKWASHED version of history, and actuality, IS widely held, but unfair.In another reply, I provided a detailed rebuttal to your claims. Unfortunately, it appears that YOU DO NOT have the ability to learn and adjust when facts and logic dictate that you do so…

  87. peacelover2345
    June 22, 2015 at 7:52 pm

    I am afraid I must add my voice to try and talk some sense into you. You have written a lot of words against Israel. Essentially, you are ignorant of the true story. Essentially, your claims are bogus. It seems you are working from hearsay, false stories people told you. You need to do some independent research.

  88. peacelover2345
    June 22, 2015 at 7:58 pm

    Please restrain yourself. TRY and stick to facts.

  89. peacelover2345
    June 22, 2015 at 8:03 pm

    PLEASE. Enough of your falsehoods. Your claims are so outlandish that you are becoming ludicrous. Do your homework. Learn the truth. STOP THIS CR* P.

  90. peacelover2345
    June 22, 2015 at 8:07 pm

    The British NEVER promised ANYTHING to the Palestinians during WW!.

  91. peacelover2345
    June 22, 2015 at 8:14 pm

    I said your words were insulting, hurtful, slanderous. They are . “mudslinging” according to MY definition. I never claimed you used personal insults, only that you did use insults.

  92. peacelover2345
    June 22, 2015 at 8:17 pm

    This is the THIRD time I raise this with you: ” HOW do you propose uprooting 6 million Israeli Jews? What is your plan?*
    You have ignored this question on BOTH previous occasions. PLEASE ANSWER this time.

  93. MaatDPX
    June 22, 2015 at 8:32 pm

    peacelover2345 , false.
    { …

    Hussein wrote a letter to McMohan; with an enclosed letter from
    Abdullah dated July 14, 1915; specifying the areas he wished to be
    included in the “Sharifian Arab Government” after Arab independence.
    Hussein’s proposed land included the Arabian Peninsula other than Aden,
    Palestine, Iraq, Syria and Lebanon. In his response to Hussein’s letter,
    McMohan agreed to post-war Arab independence on behalf of the British
    Government, limited only by the constraints and reservations of non-Arab
    territories or related to what Britain was not at liberty “to act
    without detriment to the interests of her ally, France”.

    “The districts of Mersin and Alexandretta, and portions of Syria
    lying to the west of the districts of Damascus, Homs, Hama, and Aleppo”
    were the territories not assessed as Arab by the British. As the exact
    meaning couldn’t be derived from this, similar to the later Balfour Declaration, Arab spokesmen has asserted since the time of the correspondence that Palestine was included in the proposed Arab Peninsula.

    Sharif Hussein saw this opportunity to liberate Arab lands from the
    oppression of Turks, who had abandoned their pluralistic and pan-Islamic
    policies to launch a secular Turkish nationalism, launched the Great
    Arab Revolt on June 5, 1915, trusting the word of British officials who
    promised Arabs a unified state. As the head of Arab nationalist, with
    his alliance of Britain and France, the Great Arab Revolt was initiated
    by Sharif Hussein, with the Arab armies led by his sons. Emir Faysal
    liberated Damascus from Ottoman rule in 1918 and till the end of the
    war; Arab forces had taken control of most of the Arabian Peninsula,
    Southern Syria and all of the modern Jordan. … }

    The Palestinians were promised independence by T.E. Lawrence, and the British were given the task of preparing the Palestinians for independence with the “British Mandate for Palestine”. That is what a Mandate means. And obligation to protect and prepare for self rule.

  94. MaatDPX
    June 22, 2015 at 8:57 pm

    @peacelover2345, good point in that in 1948 the number of Palestinians forced to flee was only about 700,000 back then, not millions. However, they are millions now. If Israel does not honor the right of return, or pay compensation, then Israel will be in default of the 1948 UNR 181, and be guilty of war crimes that will cause its dissolution.

  95. peacelover2345
    June 22, 2015 at 9:36 pm

    The U K agreed in the Hussein-McMahon Correspondence that it would support Arab independence if they revolted against the Ottomans. The two sides had different interpretations of this agreement. In the event, the U K and France reneged on the original deal and divided up the area in ways that the Arabs felt was unfavourable to them under the 1916 Sykes-Picot Agreement. Further confusing the issue was the Balfour Declaration of 1917, which promised support for a Jewish “national home” in Palestine. The Hedjaz region of western Arabia became an independent state under Hussein’s control, until 1925, when, abandoned and isolated by the British policy–which had shifted support to the al Saud family–it was conquered by bin Saud, leading to the creation of Saudi Arabia

    The British government in Egypt sent a young officer, Captain T. E. Lawrence, to work with the Hashemite forces in the Hejaz in October 1916. The British historian David Murphy wrote that though Lawrence was just one out of many British and French officers serving in Arabia, historians often write as though it was Lawrence alone who represented the Allied cause in Arabia.

    WHAT YOU QUOTE from are NOT FACTS, only a biased interpretation of reality. NO HISTORY OF THE TIME refers to Palestinians. The references are to Arabs and the British talked about a SINGLE unified Arab state under ONE RULER. Any claims about promised Independence for Palestinians is nothing but lies.

  96. peacelover2345
    June 22, 2015 at 9:43 pm

    The following bit of untruth was just written by you: -“However, they are millions now. If Israel does not honor the right of return, or pay compensation, then Israel will be in default of the 1948 UNR 181, and be guilty of war crimes that will cause its dissolution.”

    YOU REALLY must do some careful research and learn more about REALITY re that conflict.

  97. MaatDPX
    June 22, 2015 at 10:17 pm

    @peacelover2345, the 1948 UN resolution that created Israel is quite clear, and the rights of original land owners, mostly Arabs, was not to be abused. But Israel did abuse the rights of Arabs. They massacred villages like Dier Yassin, chased others out, confiscated Arab homes, orchards, and groves, and therefore are in default.

  98. MaatDPX
    June 22, 2015 at 10:23 pm

    @peacelover2345, that is a lie. Palestine and the Palestinians are the ONLY names used to reference the area or people. Even the Treaty of San Remo references the “British Mandate for Palestine”. And while Palestine was supposed to be a single unified Arab state, under on government, there were also references to independent Arab states of Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, and Iraq.
    The one name that is never referenced is Israel. Jews were never entitled to independent sovereignty.

  99. peacelover2345
    June 22, 2015 at 10:56 pm

    Have a look at the actual text:

    San Remo Resolution – April 25, 1920

    It was agreed –

    (a) To accept the terms of the Mandates Article as given below with reference to Palestine, on the understanding that there was inserted in the process-verbal an undertaking by the Mandatory Power that this would not involve the surrender of the rights hitherto enjoyed by the non-Jewish communities in Palestine; this undertaking not to refer to the question of the religious protectorate of France, which had been settled earlier in the previous afternoon by the undertaking given by the French Government that they recognized this protectorate as being at an end.

    (b) that the terms of the Mandates Article should be as follows:

    The High Contracting Parties agree that Syria and Mesopotamia shall, in accordance with the fourth paragraph of Article 22, Part I (Covenant of the League of Nations), be provisionally recognized as independent States, subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone. The boundaries of the said States will be determined, and the selection of the Mandatories made, by the Principal Allied Powers.

    The High Contracting Parties agree to entrust, by application of the provisions of Article 22, the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, to a Mandatory, to be selected by the said Powers. The Mandatory will be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 8, 1917, by the British Government, and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.

    La Puissance mandataire s’engage a nommer dans le plus bref delai une Commission speciale pour etudier toute question et toute reclamation concernant les differentes communautes religieuses et en etablir le reglement. Il sera tenu compte dans la composition de cette Commission des interets religieux en jeu. Le President de la Commission sera nomme par le Conseil de la Societe des Nations.

    The terms of the mandates in respect of the above territories will be formulated by the Principal Allied Powers and submitted to the Council of the League of Nations for approval.

    Turkey hereby undertakes, in accordance with the provisions of Article [132 of the Treaty of Sèvres] to accept any decisions which may be taken in this connection.

    (c) Les mandataires choisis par les principales Puissances allies sont: la France pour la Syrie, et la Grande Bretagne pour la Mesopotamie, et la Palestine.

    In reference to the above decision the Supreme Council took note of the following reservation of the Italian Delegation:

    La Delegation Italienne en consideration des grands interets economiques que l’Italie en tant que puissance exclusivement mediterraneenne possede en Asie Mineure, reserve son approbation a la presente resolution, jusqu’au reglement des interets italiens en Turquie d’Asie.
    READ THE WORDING ABOUT SETTING UP A JEWISH HOMELAND.They incorporated the wording of the Balfour Declaration of 1917. Tell me WHERE you see “independent state” for non-Jewish Palestinians.

  100. NightriderXP1
    June 23, 2015 at 1:04 am

    Great. You take well defined words and give them new alternate definitions then expect everyone to accept your new definitions? Your new definition is silly. Using your new definition, I have determined that everything you have posted in this discussion is slanderous, hurtful, and insulting. How does that work for you???

    Just because you don’t like the history that I’ve submitted supported with online links doesn’t make that history insulting, hurtful, and slanderous. History isn’t always as pleasant as we would prefer it to be. I’m sorry that you don’t like how history developed but you don’t get to rewrite it to be something you would have preferred it to have been. Like it or not, history is not all rainbows and unicorns…

    Guess what? The US supported and benefited from Slavery. Like it or not, that is part of our dark history. You don’t get to rewrite or ignore history just because it’s not always pleasant…

  101. NightriderXP1
    June 23, 2015 at 1:15 am

    You might want to go back and reread my comments to you. Do it slowly so that you can understand what I told you…

    Germany lost WWII. It should have been forced to cede land to create a Jewish state. EVERY Jew that Germany harmed in Russia, Germany, Poland, etc, should have had the Right of Return to Russia, Germany, Poland, etc which was where they lived and owned property. Creating a Jewish State on ceded German land would have allowed Germany’s victims to immigrate back to rule over themselves and their own State…

    The 5+ million Palestinian Refugees should be given their own Right of Return to Palestine where they lived and owned property. Palestine is their rightful home. They were displaced by Jews who immigrated from all over the planet. That should never have been allowed. It never made sense to steal land from one large population to give to another especially when the new population didn’t even live on the land they were granted by the UN…

    Britain promised the Palestinians their own Palestinian State if they agreed to fight the Turks and the Ottoman Empire. The Arab Palestinians lived up to their end of the agreement and the Ottoman Empire was defeated and dismantled…

    If the US wants to donate land to create a Jewish State, it should do so. In fact, any country that wants to donate land for a new Jewish State should be allowed to do so. Stealing land from one population to give to another never leads to peace. As a self proclaimed “peacelover”, you of all people should be able to understand that simple concept…

  102. MaatDPX
    June 23, 2015 at 1:27 am

    peacelover2345 , the Treaty of San Remo does not detail what was already articulated in other documents. I refer you to the Churchill Whitepaper of 1922:

    { …

    British White Paper of June 1922

    The Secretary of State for the Colonies has given renewed
    consideration to the existing political situation in Palestine, with a
    very earnest desire to arrive at a settlement of the outstanding
    questions which have given rise to uncertainty and unrest among certain
    sections of the population. After consultation with the High
    Commissioner for Palestine [Sir Herbert Samuel] the following statement
    has been drawn up. It summarizes the essential parts of the
    correspondence that has already taken place between the Secretary of
    State and a delegation from the Moslem Christian Society of Palestine,
    which has been for some time in England, and it states the further
    conclusions which have since been reached.

    The tension which has prevailed from time to time in Palestine is
    mainly due to apprehensions, which are entertained both by sections of
    the Arab and by sections of the Jewish population. These apprehensions,
    so far as the Arabs are concerned are partly based upon exaggerated
    interpretations of the meaning of the [Balfour] Declaration
    favouring the establishment of a Jewish National Home in Palestine,
    made on behalf of His Majesty’s Government on 2nd November, 1917.

    Unauthorized statements have been made to the effect that the
    purpose in view is to create a wholly Jewish Palestine. Phrases have
    been used such as that Palestine is to become “as Jewish as England is
    English.” His Majesty’s Government regard any such expectation as
    impracticable and have no such aim in view. Nor have they at any time
    contemplated, as appears to be feared by the Arab deegation, the
    disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language,
    or culture in Palestine. They would draw attention to the fact that the
    terms of the Declaration referred to do not contemplate that Palestine
    as a whole should be converted into a Jewish National Home, but that
    such a Home should be founded `in Palestine.’ In this connection it has
    been observed with satisfaction that at a meeting of the Zionist
    Congress, the supreme governing body of the Zionist Organization, held
    at Carlsbad in September, 1921, a resolution was passed expressing as
    the official statement of Zionist aims “the determination of the Jewish
    people to live with the Arab people on terms of unity and mutual
    respect, and together with them to make the common home into a
    flourishing community, the upbuilding of which may assure to each of its
    peoples an undisturbed national development.”

    It is also necessary to point out that the Zionist Commission in
    Palestine, now termed the Palestine Zionist Executive, has not desired
    to possess, and does not possess, any share in the general
    administration of the country. Nor does the special position assigned to
    the Zionist Organization in Article IV of the Draft Mandate for
    Palestine imply any such functions. That special position relates to the
    measures to be taken in Palestine affecting the Jewish population, and
    contemplates that the organization may assist in the general development
    of the country, but does not entitle it to share in any degree in its
    government. … }

    Clearly the government of Palestine was to be native Arabs, and Jews stipulated they had no interest and were to have no part in the government.
    The Jewish homeland was to be inside of an independent Arab Palestine.

  103. NightriderXP1
    June 23, 2015 at 1:53 am

    So you’re saying that the 5+ million Palestinians currently living in Refugee camps and Gazans living in the largest open air prison and those living in the occupied West Bank who are being murdered and rapidly losing what’s left of their land and property lost nothing? I would say that the Palestinians have lost everything and all of their land has been stolen to give to Jews who emigrated from everywhere else. The land did not belong to the European Jews. It belonged to the Palestinian occupants who were forced out. It won’t be long before the Zionist Project will be complete and all Palestinians are exterminated or exiled from their own land. Most rational people would call that genocide…

    Based on your behavior in this discussion, I can certainly understand why you have only half as many Disqus up votes as you have comments. You seem to post a lot but don’t have many supporters. I’m certainly not surprised. That’s probably why I remember your name from a previous conversation. Since you prefer insults over civil debate and discussion, I’m not going to waste any more energy responding to you. You’re not worth my time…

  104. NightriderXP1
    June 23, 2015 at 2:23 am

    You might want to read this simplified description of the history of Palestine. It lays out the events in layman’s terms so that anyone should be able to understand what happened…

    Palestine 1918 To 1948

    Palestine is the name (first referred to by the Ancient Greeks) of an area in the Middle East situated between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea. Palestine was absorbed into the Ottoman Empire in 1517 and remained under the rule of the Turks until World War One. Towards the end of this war, the Turks were defeated by the British forces led by General Allenby. In the peace talks that followed the end of the war, parts of the Ottoman Empire were handed over to the French to control and parts were handed over to the British – including Palestine. Britain governed this area under a League of Nations mandate from 1920 to 1948. To the Arab population who lived there, it was their homeland and had been promised to them by the Allies for help in defeating the Turks by theMcMahon Agreement – though the British claimed the agreement gave no such promise.

    The same area of land had also been promised to the Jews (as they had interpreted it) in the Balfour Declaration and after 1920, many Jews migrated to the area and lived with the far more numerous Arabs there. At this time, the area was ruled by the British and both Arabs and Jews appeared to live together in some form of harmony in the sense that both tolerated then existence of the other. There were problems in 1921 but between that year and 1928/29, the situation stabilised.

    The main problem after the war for Palestine was perceived beliefs. The Arabs had joined the Allies to fight the Turks during the war and convinced themselves that they were due to be given what they believed was their land once the war was over.

    Clashing with this was the belief among all Jews that the Balfour Declaration had promised them the same piece of territory.

    In August 1929, relations between the Jews and Arabs in Palestine broke down. The focal point of this discontent was Jerusalem.

    The primary cause of trouble was the increased influx of Jews who had emigrated to Palestine. The number of Jews in the region had doubled in ten years

    The city of Jerusalem also had major religious significance for both Arabs and Jews and over 200 deaths occurred in just four days in August (23rd to the 26th).

    Arab nationalism was whipped up by the Mufti of Jerusalem, Haji Amin al-Husseini. He claimed that the number of Jews threatened the very lifestyle of the Arabs in Palestine.

    The violence that occurred in August 1929 did not deter Jews from going to Palestine. In 1931, 4,075 Jews emigrated to the region. In 1935, it was 61,854. The Mufti estimated that by the 1940’s there would be more Jews in Palestine than Arabs and that their power in the area would be extinguished on a simple numerical basis.

    In May 1936, more violence occurred and the British had to restore law and order using the military. Thirty four soldiers were killed in the process. The violence did not stop. In fact, it became worse after November 1937.

    For the Arabs there were two enemies – the Jews and the British authorities based in Palestine via their League mandate.

    For the Jews there were also two enemies – the Arabs and the British.

    Therefore, the British were pushed into the middle of a conflict they had seemingly little control over as the two other sides involved were so driven by their own beliefs. In an effort to end the violence, the British put a quota on the number of Jews who could enter Palestine in any one year. They hoped to appease the Arabs in the region but also keep on side with the Jews by recognising that Jews could enter Palestine – but in restricted numbers. They failed on both counts.

    Both the Jews and the Arabs continued to attack the British. The Arabs attacked because they believed that the British had failed to keep their word after 1918 and because they believed that the British were not keeping the quotas agreed to as they did little to stop illegal landings into Palestine made by the Jews.

    The Jews attacked the British authorities in Palestine simply because of the quota which they believed was grossly unfair. The British had also imposed restrictions on the amount of land Jews could buy in Palestine.

    An uneasy truce occurred during the war when hostilities seemed to cease. This truce, however, was only temporary.

    Many Jews had fought for the Allies during World War Two and had developed their military skills as a result. After the war ended in 1945, these skills were used in acts of terrorism. The new Labour Government of Britain had given the Jews hope that they would be given more rights in the area. Also in the aftermath of the Holocaust in Europe, many throughout the world were sympathetic to the plight of the Jews at the expense of the Arabs in Palestine.

    However, neither group got what they were looking for. The British still controlled Palestine. As a result, the Jews used terrorist tactics to push their claim for the area. Groups such as the Stern Gang and Irgun Zvai Leumi attacked the British that culminated in the destruction of the British military headquarters in Palestine – the King David Hotel. Seemingly unable to influence events in Palestine, the British looked for a way out.

    In 1947, the newly formed United Nations accepted the idea to partition Palestine into a zone for the Jews (Israel) and a zone for the Arabs (Palestine). With this United Nations proposal, the British withdrew from the region on May 14th 1948. Almost immediately, Israel was attacked by Arab nations that surrounded in a war that lasted from May 1948 to January 1949. Palestinian Arabs refused to recognise Israel and it became the turn of the Israeli government itself to suffer from terrorist attacks when fedayeen (fanatics) from the Palestinian Arabs community attacked Israel. Such attacks later became more organised with the creation of the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO). To the Palestinian Arabs, the area the Jews call Israel, will always be Palestine. To the Jews it is Israel. There have been very few years of peace in the region since 1948.

  105. NightriderXP1
    June 23, 2015 at 2:51 am

    No, I don’t think everything I disagree with is hurtful, untrue and slanderous. That’s what you believe. Over the years, I’ve learned a lot from people I debated. When I am discussing an issue with someone who has the ability to be civil and willing to adjust to new information, it can lead to a productive outcome. It’s nice when I find people who can debate with all good intentions and are willing to adjust with the facts. I certainly understand that I don’t know everything and realize that many of my views could be based on half truths or distortions from people I’ve talked to over the years. My parents and family were all Republicans, so we were taught to see the world through the GOP lens. But something my parents didn’t like was that I was inquisitive. As a Baptist family, we were taught not to question and believe through faith that what we were taught in church was true. Knowledge was evil, which is why A&E were supposedly punished from eating fruit from the Tree of Knowledge…

    A lot of my views have evolved over the years as new information comes along. I voted Republican for most of my life, but now I’m a Democrat. I learned enough to realize that I didn’t share many of the beliefs or agenda of the GOP, so I walked away from it, much to my mother’s dismay. I allow facts and logic to guide my way. I no longer believe in Santa Claus even though we were taught from Birth to believe in him. I no longer believe in a sky ghost, basically another version of Santa Claus. A lot of people lie to us from an early age so a lot of what we believe is based on lies. Some people can escape the early indoctrination. Apparently, most can’t or won’t…

    I’m sorry that you don’t like history and think that anything that questions what you know had to come from Israel haters. That’s quite a trick when you can ignore every piece of information that questions what you believe by saying it came from Anti-Semitic sources, meaning you don’t have to bother reading and understanding it. I see that with Conservatives too. Anything that challenges what they believe had to come from a “Librul” media so it’s not worth their time to read or listen to what those sources say. It’s a form of self censorship. You participate in an echo chamber so that all you see, read, or hear agrees with what you believe and nothing that disagrees with you ever gets a chance to be heard. It’s the FOX affect. If you can write off anything that questions your views and biases, your views can remain “pure”, unaffected by pesky facts and logic. You become a puppet to those who control the echo chamber. It’s not where you want to be if you truly want to learn and know the facts…

  106. NightriderXP1
    June 23, 2015 at 3:24 am

    If it wasn’t an oligarchy before the SCOTUS decision on Citizens United, it certainly is now. Almost every GOP Presidential candidate has their own billionaire sugar daddy so the GOP primaries could be extremely interesting. Most of the GOP candidates now don’t have to running short on funds, which would usually be the reason they withdraw from the race, so if the race starts with 17 candidates, there still may be 17 GOP candidates still alive and going strong at the end. It would be nice if the candidates would tell us what they have promised to their wealthy donors if they become POTUS, but of course they won’t. Their promises aren’t likely going to benefit the majority of Americans…

  107. Southern
    June 23, 2015 at 3:32 am

    It sure is now indeed, I was under the impression that MLK was already implying that the US already resembled an oligarchy even way back then.

    As for candidates you might find this interesting –

  108. ThorsteinVeblen2012
    June 23, 2015 at 3:05 pm

    If they ever are caught they will get no more than a slap on the hands.

    Because the settler movement is supported by the Israeli government.

  109. NightriderXP1
    June 23, 2015 at 3:07 pm

    When I was young, I always watched and followed MLK’s media coverage. Not only was he fighting for the rights of African Americans, but he was fighting for the rights of the poor and disenfranchised of any race. MLK fought against the Vietnam War, police oppression, Jim Crow, poverty, etc. While many christian ministers had embraced the Old Testament over the New, MLK practiced what his religion was supposedly based on and a large percentage of white christian Americans renounced him and labeled him a Communist. That was probably the first time that I can remember when I began questioning every thing I had been taught from birth. What I had been taught didn’t square with how “good” christians were reacting and behaving. When MLK was assassinated, I was shocked but not surprised. Even at such a young age, I could see the unfairness in our country and politics. I’m saddened that real positive change has been so slow to materialize in our country in the last 5 decades. If anything, it seems like we are losing ground and being dragged backward to the 19th Century. How can so many “good” Americans be so easily fooled to fight against their own best interests and the interests of the majority in favor of the wealthy minority???

    I worked for Obama’s campaign in 2008. WE were told that Hillary was our anointed candidate and we were wasting our time and energy. WE proved them wrong. I now support Bernie Sanders and believe that even though we are once again being told that Hillary is our anointed candidate, that Bernie can and will win. He is drawing huge crowds every where he has gone. Even though the oligarchy wants us to believe that we don’t have a choice, we still do. WE don’t have to accept their preferred candidate to be our nominee…

  110. ThorsteinVeblen2012
    June 23, 2015 at 3:09 pm

    How does your rationalization fit into the context of vandalizing a church?

    When Jews commit an act of hatred you seem to shift to the tired meme that Jews are entitled because they are the victims.

    The land was originally the Canaanites. Apparently the Torah is not a moral code but a land deed.

  111. ThorsteinVeblen2012
    June 23, 2015 at 3:14 pm

    Zionism is racism.

    To the degree that Jews are linked their identity to Israel is to have tied your can to the cat’s tail. Now that you have done it, it will take it where ever it goes.

    You can’t recast the Confederacy as some noble cause, and just is the case with Israel.

  112. peacelover2345
    June 23, 2015 at 5:53 pm

    If you cannot understand that the quotes I sent you, at YOUR request, can be hurtful, that NO HISTORY NEEDS to use such subjective words, then you are too biased to ever hold an intelligent discussion with.

    If you consider the following to be objective history, then you have your own definitions for ordinary English words: “It would not surprise me if the Israeli leadership nuked one of its own cities in order to use it as an excuse to blame its neighbors…..”

  113. NightriderXP1
    June 23, 2015 at 6:37 pm

    I have no doubt that historical evidence that challenges the beliefs of Israeli apologists might be uncomfortable for them but just because it’s uncomfortable for them to hear it, it wouldn’t be categorized as “insulting, hurtful, slanderous” as you have suggested. I’m sorry that you don’t like the dark side of Israel’s history but you still need to learn it…

    I wouldn’t be at all surprised that someone like you who refuses to hear, read, or acknowledge any negative history dealing with Zionist Jews and the creation of Israel on stolen land might not be aware of Israel’s long history of using False Flag operations to assassinate people it doesn’t like or to sway public opinion. Just because you don’t like it, it still is part of recorded history…

    I bet you’re unaware of this attack against a US flagged vessel, which was a failed attempt by Israel to convince the US to attack Egypt:

    The USS Liberty: A Failed Israeli False Flag Attack Against the United States

    On June 8, 1967, Israel attacked the American naval vessel USS Liberty in international waters, and tried to sink it.

    After checking the Liberty out for 8 hours – and making 9 overflights with Israeli jets, within 200 feet … close enough for the pilots and the sunbathing Liberty sailors on deck to waive at each other.

    Yet the Israelis attacked it with Mirage fighter jets, torpedoes and napalm. The USS Liberty suffered 70% casualties, with 34 killed and 174 wounded.

    The Israeli attack spanned two hours … as long as the attack on Pearl Harbor. The air attack alone lasted approximately 25 minutes: consisting of more than 30 sorties by approximately 12 separate planes using napalm, cannon, and rockets which left 821 holes in the ship. The Israelis fired 30mm cannons and rockets into the boat.

    Following the attack by fighter jets, three Israeli motor torpedo boats torpedoed the ship, causing a 40 x 40 foot wide hole in her hull, and machine-gunning firefighters and stretcher-bearers attempting to save their ship and crew. More than 3,000 machine-gun bullet holes were later counted on the Liberty’s hull.

    After the attack was thought to have ended, three life rafts were lowered into the water to rescue the most seriously wounded. The Israeli torpedo boats returned and machine-gunned these life rafts at close range. This was followed by the approach of two large Israeli Army assault helicopters filled with armed commandos carrying what appeared to be explosive satchels (they departed after hovering over the ship for several minutes, making no attempt to communicate).

    The Israelis clearly knew it was an American ship, tried to sink it, and tried to frame the Egyptians for the attack


    Admiral Thomas H. Moorer – former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff – chaired a non-governmental investigation into the attack on the USS Liberty in 2003. The committee – which included General of Marines Raymond G. Davis, Rear Admiral Merlin Staring, former Judge Advocate General of the Navy, and former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia James E. Akins – held Israel to be culpable and suggested several theories for Israel’s possible motives, including the desire to blame Egypt and bring the U.S. into the Six Day War.

    Indeed, President Lyndon Johnson dispatched nuclear-armed fighter jets to drop nuclear bombs on Cairo, Egypt. They were only recalled at the last minute, when Johnson realized that it was the Israelis – and not the Egyptians – who had fired on the Liberty.

  114. peacelover2345
    June 23, 2015 at 9:11 pm

    I TOTALLY disagree with your narrative as to all the historical events you describe
    As for the refugees:–90% of the Jews directly affected by Hitler are dead. 90% of the Arabs who left Israel are dead. 90% of the Jews who left Arab lands and were dispossessed are dead.

    Over 70% of present day Israelis were born in Israel. 95% of Palestinian refugees and their descendants have never lived n Israel.

    There are currently over 6 million Jews in Israel, and you refer to over 5 million people descended from Palestinian Arabs- a total of almost 12 million people. That is a lot of people to pack up and leave where they live now, including all their possessions, in order to relocate en masse.


  115. peacelover2345
    June 23, 2015 at 9:57 pm

    Clearly you omitted a few important paragraphs which put a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT interpretation on the document you quote: As you can plainly see, EVEN in 1921 the Jews had the makings of a national home,including SELF GOVERNMENT and language, INTERNATIONALLY GUARANTEED, within Palestine as it was then constituted.

    Further, it is contemplated that the status of all citizens of Palestine in the eyes of the law shall be Palestinian, and it has never been intended that they, or any section of them, should possess any other juridical status. So far as the Jewish population of Palestine are concerned it appears that some among them are apprehensive that His Majesty’s Government may depart from the policy embodied in the Declaration of 1917. It is necessary, therefore, once more to affirm that these fears are unfounded, and that that Declaration, re affirmed by the Conference of the Principle Allied Powers at San Remo and again in the Treaty of Sevres, is not susceptible of change

    During the last two or three generations the Jews have recreated in Palestine a community, now numbering 80,000, of whom about one fourth are farmers or workers upon the land. This community has its own political organs; an elected assembly for the direction of its domestic concerns; elected councils in the towns; and an organization for the control of its schools. It has its elected Chief Rabbinate and Rabbinical Council for the direction of its religious affairs. Its business is conducted in Hebrew as a vernacular language, and a Hebrew Press serves its needs. It has its distinctive intellectual life and displays considerable economic activity. This community, then, with its town and country population, its political, religious, and social organizations, its own language, its own customs, its own life, has in fact “national” characteristics. When it is asked what is meant by the development of the Jewish National Home in Palestine, it may be answered that it is not the imposition of a Jewish nationality upon the inhabitants of Palestine as a whole, but the further development of the existing Jewish community, with the assistance of Jews in other parts of the world, in order that it may become a centre in which the Jewish people as a whole may take, on grounds of religion and race, an interest and a pride. But in order that this community should have the best prospect of free development and provide a full opportunity for the Jewish people to display its capacities, it is essential that it should know that it is in Palestine as of right and not on the sufferance. That is the reason why it is necessary that the existence of a Jewish National Home in Palestine should be internationally guaranteed, and that it should be formally recognized to rest upon ancient historic connection.

    This, then, is the interpretation which His Majesty’s Government place upon the Declaration of 1917, and, so understood, the Secretary of State is of opinion that it does not contain or imply anything which need cause either alarm to the Arab population of Palestine or disappointment to the Jews.

  116. peacelover2345
    June 23, 2015 at 10:16 pm

    While I do not agree 100% with this write-up, IT IS MUCH MORE MEASURED< MORE BALANCED than anything you wrote. It also lacks the subjective, accusatory tone which you seemed to favor.

    In addition—note the following:-"To the Arab population who lived there, it was their homeland and had been promised to them by the Allies for help in defeating the Turks by theMcMahon Agreement – though the British claimed the agreement gave no such promise".

    The British DID NOT deal with any Palestinians, per se. They promised the Sharif of Mecca Arab self rule over Arab lands. They complied, in their fashion, by creating several Arab Kingdoms.

  117. peacelover2345
    June 23, 2015 at 10:27 pm

    What you say about me is HOGWASH, as SHOULD be evident to you, from reading my previous replies with an “open mind”, which you have NOT DONE to date.

    Unlike YOUR OWN words, which describe “history” in a very partial way, the cut and paste history 1918-1948 which you submitted, was much more informative and much more objective(as any historical description SHOULD BE). Please read my reply to that specific submission of yours.

    Please pay attention to what you say to me about being open to facts, not subject to the echo chamber, etc. Practice what you preach.

  118. NightriderXP1
    June 23, 2015 at 10:28 pm

    Throughout man’s history, millions of people have been moved from one place to another. It is known that at least 11 million Latinos have immigrated into the US and those numbers are probably wildly conservative. If their intention was to build a Catholic State on top of the US, most Americans would be screaming to have them forcibly deported no matter how long it took. Many conservative Americans are already screaming for that outcome even though there seems to be no threat from these immigrants…

    Demographic history of Palestine

    In 1920, the League of Nations’ Interim Report on the Civil Administration of Palestine stated that there were hardly 700,000 people living in Palestine:

    There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ. Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or—a small number—are Protestants. The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. In the following 30 years a few hundreds came to Palestine. Most of them were animated by religious motives;

    Most of the Jewish Israelis living there today came from Europe. That is their real home. Palestine belonged to the Arab population that has been murdered, tortured, and driven off of their land. It is THEIR land and we helped steal it from them…

    It makes as little sense creating a Jewish State as it does to create a Baptist State or a Mormon State or a Catholic State or a Methodist State. Israel is a Theocracy, not a Democracy, so all non Jewish “citizens” are treated like crap because they are not welcome there. The world is going to be seeing more violence directed against the christian “citizens” of Israel because they aren’t welcome there either. It was a morally bankrupt proposition to steal all of Palestine and hand it to Zionists Jews. That would be like if Republicans demanded that we form a State just for them. In fact, we sort of have that history in the Confederacy, which ended up costing over 600,000 lives. If the Confederacy hadn’t been crushed, imagine how bloody our history would look like today. It was as wrong to accept the Confederacy 150 years ago as it is to continue the failed Zionist experiment in Palestine. Many conservatives are still fighting our Civil War 150+ years later. Even today, the Confederate flag continues flying over or near the state capitals of several southern states…

    Imagine how freaked out Americans would be if an obscure catholic sect in Mexico publicly announced it’s goal to create a “Catholic State” on top of the US and encouraged millions of catholics from all over the planet to legally and illegally immigrate here. Imagine if it became clear that these catholics had no intention to ever integrate with our existing population and they started burning cities and communities and driving Americans into refugee camps in Canada. Imagine if the UN eventually gave its rubber stamp of approval for partitioning the US into 2 separate countries knowing full well that the incoming immigrants never planned to adhere to the UN’s proposed partition boundaries. How many generations do you think it should take before those American refugees should give up on the idea of their Right of Return to their properties here in the US???

    You are asking the 5+ million Palestinian refugees plus everyone in Gaza and the West Bank to agree to what has been and is being done to them and give up on ever regaining their land or their sovereignty. The Zionist Jews are the foreign invaders, not the Palestinians. The Zionist Jews do not belong in Palestine on stolen land. Their homes were in Europe, Africa, the US, Canada, etc. That is where they should return so that peace can finally be restored in Palestine and the Middle East…