NOTES: (1) This is not a transcript — It's the blogger's approximation, and no one really knows what that is yet! But I do know you shouldn't quote anything not in quotation marks. (2) I'll timestamp the updates and will update about every 15 minutes, servers willing. The hamsters that run the servers will appreciate it if you don't refresh excessively in the meantime. (3) If you're not having enough fun just reading along the liveblog, consider buying my book on this case.

To explain my point in the last thread about Fitz catching Libby in a lie…

WP testified that Libby was one of his sources for the claim that "an aide to VP Cheney" asked for more information, which eventually led to Wilson being sent. But in fact, Cheney was the one who asked for more information. So Libby lied to Pincus to distance Cheney from Wilson's trip.

Now onto Woodward. Anyone remember who broke the story of Watergate? You think the guy who broke that story would sit on his knowledge of a leak for over a year?!?!? Nahhhh!

One big question I have on Woodward is whether Fitz will be allowed to point out that Libby leaked to Woodward exactly what he said he had to get Presidential authorization to leak to Judy Judy Judy two weeks later–but that when he leaked it to Woodward, he had no idea whether it had been declassified or not.

Fitzgerald up, objecting to putting Cue Card into evidence, particularly since it has been redacted to include just Wilson's name.

Jeffress: This is the document as it was redacted by Woodward to Fitzgerald to us.

Walton: That's all they were provided.

Fitz: That's all we were provided.

Walton: I think you can bring out that there was a lot of other information on it.

Waiting for the jury.

Jeffress up calls Woodward. 

Woodward: Aqua tie. I do, loudly,

J: What do you do for a living.

BW: Assistant MG Editor for WaPo, and a book author.

BW Starting with Watergate most about Presidents or CIA or SCOTUS.

J Recipient of any Pulitzers? [Hey, how come Jeffress didn't ask this question of Pulitzer prize winner Judy Judy Judy??]

BW Shared in two 

J June 2003, what were you working on

BW: Plan of Attack. 

J How many sources

BW: Several hundred and 75 primary sources

J Was one Libby? When did you speak to Libby?

BW Lots of times?

J June 17 2003? How did that interview get arranged?

BW June 2 [note, Woodward never mentioned THIS meeting before], I was trying to interview VP Cheney, it looked like it had been arranged. 4 days before the June 27 interview, on June 23, I sent 16 pages of questions to Libby.


BW On June 23 (I think) Libby told me I had overplayed my hand, sent in too many questions. 

J terms of this book?

BW Background, deep background. Post had given me a year to work on this book. I was going through questions to see if he could do the questions on deep background.

J Did you interview VP for book?

BW stumbles

J If it makes you uncomfortable, I'll withdraw that

BW Thank you.

J If a source told you info off the record, could you use info using that source?

BW You shouldn't. You know what somebody has told you, Off the record, but it should no be in the story.

J Condition of Deep Background in which Libby spoke to you on June 27, is that uncommon.

BW No.

J Before you met with Libby on 27, had you received info on Wilson's wife.

BW Two weeks before on June 23 [fucks up] I was doing a lengthy interview with Armitage.

J Can I interrupt, you said June 23.

BW, Sorry, June 13. On June 13 I interviewed Armitage for the book.

J Do you recall there was an article in WaPo by Pincus that discussed a former ambassador?

BW Yes, I read the article.

J Did you raise the subject, or did he. 

BW I raised it, I knew it was Wilson [doesn't say how], so I asked Armitage why he had been sent.

J going to introduce tape from interview.  

BW Could I just say one thing. This was a background interview, since this arose, Armitage has released me, he said I could testify about it, He has gone so far as to request that I present any info on it. 

Tape and transcript.

Woodward drinking water. He looks much greyer

BW What's Scowcroft up tp

A Looking into yellowcake


BW What happened there

A CIA is not going to be hurt by this one.

A Hadley and Bob Joseph know.

A We've got our documents

A George [Tenet] personally got it out of the Cincinnati speech.

BW How come it was in the SOTU.

A Condi doesn't like to be on the hotspot.

A Why doesn't it come out. Everyone knows.

BW Why did they send him.

A Because his Wife's an ANalyst .

BW Oh, she's the chief WMD?

A No, she isn't the chief no.

BW High enough she can say, oh hubby will go.

A Not to my knowledge. His wife is a WMD analyst. HOw about that [redacted–shit?] 

J You didn't write about this did you?

BW For the WaPo, no. 

Now puts up the Q Card card. 

BW A list of potential questions I did with Card on June 20,

J A week after your conversation with Armitage

J What does that say

BW Joe Wilson's wife

J What's the nature of what's in redacted portions

BW I'm trying to find out why Bush went to war in Iraq.


J Did you ask Card about Wilson's wife?

BW I did not, This interview was taperecorded. It did not come up.

J Did you take this list of questions for Card with you?

BW I believe I did

J What time did it start?

BW On 27, a week after Card interview, I have it as 5

BW It was clearly the end of the day, we had the Q Cheney questions to go through. What I do is take questions from earlier interviews and bring them to interviews that I'm doing, and in my Cheney-Libby file, this full list of questions from Card was in there, along with the Q Cheney 18 pages, 16 pages and maybe other list of questions.  The subject of the NIE came up. I don't recall specifically whether the 16 words were discussed. I don't think there was public controversy beyond what had been appearing in the WaPo.

J Did uranium from Africa come up

BW yellowcake, which is a form of uranium oxide,  did come up

J Did you ask any questions about Wilson's wife

BW Not that I recall

J is it possible you did

BW Yes

J Did Libby say anything to you?

BW THere's no doubt that Libby didn't say anything, I dictated a memo. I would have written it down. This was an interview where we're going through questions on the Cheney list. I'm seeing where we're going to go. Hopefully I'm going to be able to talk to Cheney. I'm also seeing what I can get from him.

J Going back to Armitage. When Armi said CIA not going to be hurt and we're clean as a whistle.  Was he referring to 16 words?

BW Speech Bush gave October 7 in Cincinnati, what he told me was that Tenet got the reference to uranium, Africa removed.

J That removal of claim was being raised.

BW that's what I asked Armitage. How come if it was removed a version was in SOTU?

J Why did you get into Wilson's trip

BW We were talking about Cincinnati speech and NIE and this and other subjects. I'm interested in what was the intell. Why did the President go to war.

J You mean NIE October 2002. Some of which had been released and some was still classified.

BW I had a sense of what was in NIE.

J What Armitage told you, did that indicate to you she was covert.

BW Just the opposite, in that portion you played, you've redacted words that are offenseive. "In the raw it has a little more fire." What he said specifically was that Wilson's wife was an analyst.

Pass the witness.

Fitzgerald: When you were first interviewed, appeared in Lawyers office? Because member of media?

BW Not sure the reason, you and your lawyer arranged that.

F Nothing about testifying in lawyers office affected the substance.  Two questions about tape. Is it fair to say all redactions are the firey words. They don't relate to covert nature of someone's employment.

BW Correct

F You say, why doesn't that come out, everyone knows.

BW Pincus' article did not name Wilson, I knew it Armitage knew it, and I was wondering why it was not disclosed at that time.

F Did you know that Wilson's wife was alleged to work at CIA? Were you referring to her CIA employ when you said everyone knows it?

BW No–I was referring to Wilson.

F Turning to doct in front of you, Q Card, one page or more?

BW Just one page.

F A number of other entries.

F You believe you brought Q Card with you to interview with Libby

BW Yes, we went through the Q Cheney card of questions.

BW I am certain I brought Q Cheney, I believe I brought Q Card, it is my habit to bring list of questions from one interview to the next.

F New exhibit.


BW Identifies Q Cheney questions, "that goes on and on and on."

F In this list of questions there's no reference to Wilson's wife.

F Do you recall that during interview on June 27, 2003, Libby was extremely defensive and protective of Cheney.

BW In my notes, when we got to the NIE. 4 months after invasion, no WMD had been found. Pres and Admin had said with great certainty we know WMD, part of the basis for this was the NIE, as I went through that with Libby, he was taking the position that the CIA had insisted that there were WMD. He was defenseive about things Pres had said publicly. 

F Did you note that he went on and on and on about defending the VP?

BW I believe you have a copy of my notes, Libby released me like Armitage. And it says that when Libby talked about NIE he was very defensive. And one of the lines says he went on and on and on.

F This was for a book?

BW Correct

F And any articles would be released when the book was published.  And you have no recollection of talking about Libby.

F Was it your understanding that all the reporters knew about Wilson's wife?

BW I have no idea.

Jeffress  Would you expect someone who works for VP to defend boss?

BW Yes.

Jeffress goes back to transcript, focuses just on two lines of the interview.

J It's not you saying, "everyone knows it." That's him speaking.

BW correct.

Jury Question:

Walton: Is it your understanding that any other journalist knew about Plame.

BW The reporter working on it knew it. I told him. 

Walton: gives another instruction not to consider the tape for the truth.

Fitz: One follow-up question. One reporter who might have known.

BW Walter Pincus.

Okay, this is done–I'll see you in the David Sanger thread. 




Marcy Wheeler aka Emptywheel is an American journalist whose reporting specializes in security and civil liberties.